Curse

toastgodsupreme · May 31, 2005, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Last night we did the run to Lion's Arch (gates of Krytia). At the VERY begining, some elementalist runs ahead (we were still waiting for everyone to pop into the zone) plays tank. After the battle ends and my energy depleted, I yell at him (through party, so all can see) and say:

"If you EVER play tank and kill my energy like that again, I will stop healing you and let you die."

Needless to say, he stayed back and let our two warriors do the tanking (and quite well I might add).

The mission went quite well with only one death (some Mo/Me, who's build I wasn't sure about because he wasn't healing anyone but himself, and doing a shitty job at that). He also died in the swamp (poison, durh). I was busy keeping the warriors alive to bother with him in the swamp (they were all warned to avoid the water as best as possible, but he hung out in it. his own damn fault).

This is all on my mo/w btw. I initially spec'd her to be a wamo type build, but went to healing build since nobody would party with me. I have to say, I don't mind being support. It's quite fun.

funbun · May 31, 2005, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Support is fun.

But once you Ascend people will acept you in their party no matter what build you are. Ascension has a certain thing about it.

Just be for warned that you will need smite in the Mirror Ascension Test. Once you Ascend you can play any build you want.

ElevenBravo · May 31, 2005, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunt0r

Tatoo's are noob? They give the most energy which is deathly imposrtant. I've played both phys armour and tatoos, and believe me, a tatoo healing monk is far superior to a armoured one with 11 less energy.

LOL, yep, your a newb. I dont guess you have pvp'ed much with a tat only monk?

funbun · May 31, 2005, 04:20 PM // 16:20

yeah most monk use Judges armor for help protect against physical damage. Warriors gank monks.

Opaque · Jun 01, 2005, 06:05 PM // 18:05

if you go with tatoos you simply need to bring skills to make up the armor difference

JoDiamonds · Jun 01, 2005, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Everyone should be really clear about PvP vs. PvE for armor. No one's a "newb" for not playing PvP, and assuming everyone does is silly.

There's nothing wrong with PvP, I like it a lot. But for a game named Guild Wars, the PvE is really good. =)

funbun · Jun 01, 2005, 08:40 PM // 20:40

There is a difference between a newb and a n00b. Newbs or newbies are people who are new. The same as being a rookie or freshman. They are willing to learn and are open minded.

N00bs, on the other hand, are losers. They have no intention of learn anything. They are God as far as they are concerned and do not understand why others think less of them than they do of themselves.

Being a n00b is an insult
Being a newb is not.

skystride · Jun 01, 2005, 09:08 PM // 21:08

You will get your butt handed to you in PvP if you assume that ?/Mo means they can't be a primary healer. There are several ?/Mo build that can outheal many primary monk builds. I have personal experience with E/Mo that can breeze through 4v4 better than any primary monk I know.

Newb is apt for anyone who hasn't realized this yet.

funbun · Jun 01, 2005, 09:16 PM // 21:16

I've seen that too. Elmos have lots of energy reserveses. I've seen them outheal me.

tidal · Jun 02, 2005, 01:09 AM // 01:09

I've been playing a monk/elementalist for a few weeks now, and had a great amount of enjoyment from it. What I don't understand is during the ascension missions i've constantly had groups of morons and I don't say that lightly. I don't understand how these people have gotten so far in the game and then have the balls to STILL blame me when it's their rushing which got them killed... I try my best to heal but it can only go so far.

On a funnier note I like to sit in mission areas and count how many group invites I get in 3 minutes :P

record is 5

Ollj · Jun 02, 2005, 01:56 AM // 01:56

3. Do not settle for a secondary class monk. Despite what others might tell you, a character without Divine Favor is not a healer, unless it has a lot of energy storage

True: divine favour heals more than energy storage, but not as often because of energy limits.

true. Warriormonks definitely are no healers and they should not waste points on healing prayers!

BTW:
Monks are not essential to have in any team, most classes can heal themself pretty good (palladins excluded).

Curlyfry · Jun 02, 2005, 03:12 AM // 03:12

One huge problem i have run into with my monk, i created a wicked protection monk, and as this post claims, people blame monks for losing. This post truly applies to healing monks, while it really should focus also on smiting and protection monks. Both smiting monks and protection monks are rarer to find, but they can usually become more helpful than healing monks. I will place some tips on how to create/work/party with these monks

Smiting Monks:
1. When one has a smiting monk, sure, focus on smiting, but always keep rez and a healing prayer. This helps group survival and posterity.
2. Clearly state that you are a smiting monk and not a healing monk!!!(i cannot repeat this enough). When a monk is in a party, they are looked at as the main healer. In PvE levels, people will downsize their monk alot, MAKE SURE THERE ARE AT LEAST 2 HEALING MONKS IN EACH GROUP!
3. As a smiter, you should state to the group what you do exactly. Smiters are GREAT targeters.
4. Learn some great smiting spells. Though rare, smiting spells are great for team play, and any monk can use them.

Protection Monks:
1. State that you need healing monks in order to function well. Most teams will count you as a healer, and find that when low on health, they die.
2. Place some armor buffs and health regeneration spells on tanks. this way, they can stay alive (and take the beating for you, hehehe).
3. Take rez or rebirth with you. This way you are still able to keep your team going.
4. Stay back ALL THE TIME! When in the tombs and being targeted/chased, buff yourself and heal yourself, i have done this and found that I can last for EXTREMELY long amounts of time.
5. Have at least two healing monks in your party. With two healers and a rotector your team's longentivity is garunteed.
6. (fun to do) Form an all monk group, or at least 5 monks. This usually lasts a while and can make it to and hold the HoH.

Hope this guide helps, i will be adding edits, but I am rushing, and remember, GUILD WARS ROCKS!

funbun · Jun 02, 2005, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Good suggestions, Curly. I wonder why monks don't every learn their other 2 attributes?

They get to the mirror test and can't beat it because they have never been learned to Smite.

nennafir · Jun 02, 2005, 05:47 AM // 05:47

I would just like to reiterate that I have an E/Mo with 12 healing prayers, 14 energy storage, and 4 earth magic.

I have ether prodigy. I can basically repeat cast heal party FOREVER, with only very minor pauses. I have so much energy that with my energy and ether prodigy, I always have the energy to do what I want to.

For PVE, there are no complaints. For PVP, the complaint is that I can't heal myself as well as I can heal other people. This is a definite weakness. A primary Monk has more options to heal themselves than a secondary monk. I think this is what balances an E/Mo and the real reason all monks are not E/Mo's (this, and the fact that monks will deal better with spike damage.)

But if what you want is a healer that always has the energy to heal you, an E/Mo is your best bet.

Extra credit discussion: Ether prodigy is like crack cocaine. Once you start on an ether prodigy binge in a given battle, you just keep using it again and again every 22 seconds or whatever.

buggsy · Jun 02, 2005, 06:01 AM // 06:01

IF you find a primary monk using signet of devotion, he sucks. You dont gain any benefit from divine using signets.

busbus · Jun 02, 2005, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggsy

IF you find a primary monk using signet of devotion, he sucks. You dont gain any benefit from divine using signets.

signet of devotion heals about 80 and there is no mana cost.
Ok it is quite slow.
But isn't is a nice idea to spam this signet in some cases until you got more mana again ?

buggsy · Jun 02, 2005, 10:49 AM // 10:49

I've had party members die on me while in the middle of using that very slow signet.

busbus · Jun 02, 2005, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

So the general rule for using Signet of Devotion is that if someone isn't in desperate need of a heal right now, and you can deliver right now, you cast Signet. If half a second later someone needs that fast heal you just cancel and cast the heal. But a lot of the time you'll get a bit over halfway through the cast before they need that heal, and then the Signet will finish healing right around the time a normal, fast heal would have gone off. Use Signet on people at full health, on someone you've just finished healing, or just keep it running pretty much whenever you have a chance. It really doesn't cost you more than the skill slot it takes.

Well i thought more of using it in this way.

JoDiamonds · Jun 02, 2005, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elurian

Guys think about this.... E/Mos have to use heal other which is 10e to reach the same amt of HP I heal with orision right now I dont even have favor maxed out (healing is close to it) and I heal for 60 + 35(divine favor) + 58(divine boon) Thats 148 off of a 5e "spam" heal change the skill from orision to heal other and I heal for 151 + 35 + 58 thats 244hp per way more than any E/Mo can heal I'm not saying they arent helpful and you should ALWAYS have at least 2 healers in the group one of which is a primary

I agree that any group of 5+ players probably needs at least two healers (even if they aren't dedicated healers).

But I've been -able- to keep a group of six players alive with my ElMo. While you are certainly right that a monk primary can heal more in a short period of time, that period of time is about ten seconds, after which the monk will be out of energy (if they've been repeatedly casting Heal Other, which is your example). With about 70 energy, ElMo can cast Heal Other twice as much, and can also use smaller heals in between with far less worry about running out of energy.

If one player is near death, a primary monk will certainly get that player closest to fully healed the fastest. But an Elementalist can do a lot more "partial" healing, so to speak. 244 hps is a lot of healing, but it's actually SO much that it's wasted sometimes, and it's about 25% of monk's energy.

The skills used differ somewhat for ElMo vs. Mo/x; bigger spells like Heal Other, Healing Seed, Heal Party, and even Heal Area are much more reasonable for an ElMo, and gain less benefit from being a Mo/Primary (unless you yourself are getting pummeled, the party/area heals don't benefit at all). Monk primaries -need- to use cheap spammy spells to benefit from Divine Favor.

In particular, Healing Seed is quite powerful, but not a great option for Monk Primaries, yet a fantastic option for Elementalists.

Note that I'm talking about both PvP and PvE here; obviously some things are more or less true for each situation (but ElMo and Mo/x are great healers for both).

JYX · Jun 02, 2005, 03:47 PM // 15:47

erm...Divine boon is only efficient in very select circumstances. I made a graph here in the discussion thread here. This outlines the efficiency of the average boon healer. Note that the Heal Per Energy of Heal Other is only slightly lower than that of Orison which I used there. Therefore if you're relying on divine boon, it really is quite risky to say for sure that you're more efficient or can heal more than an arcanist.

While its true that the average monk will keep the team topped up over the course of a battle much more efficiently than an ele/monk recently I've recently been thinking about the possibility of an "arcane healer". Although I've only been thinking for about a day, my conclusions were the same as that of JoDiamonds'. With a larger energy pool you can outheal the kind of "wave" battles and spike damage that we get, simply by providing more healing than an enemy elementalist can put out in damage. Although in pitched KoTH fights, perhaps its unsuitable.